way, f-16s and military tanks. you paid for it so you can be at war with us and israel. unbelievable. that's all the time we have this evening. the news continues. greta is next to go on the record. see you tomorrow night. tonight, are we getting a bunch of double talk from the obama administration? >> the level of hypocrisy that exists in washington, really knows no limit, quite frankly. >> does the nsa collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of americans? >> no, sir. >> it does not? >> not wittingly. there are cases where they could inadvertently perhaps collect, but not wittingly. so i responded what i thought was the most truthful or least untruthful manner by saying no. >> when the president sets the tone, the others in the administration follow, and the

president has made it easy for these other folks to feel it's okay to misrepresent and lie about whatever is important to the administration. >> i thought in retrospect, i was asked when you are going to stop beating your wife kind of question, not answerable necessarily by a simple yes or no, so i responded in what i thought was the most truthful or least untruthful manner by saying no. so i responded in what i thought was the most truthful or least untruthful manner by saying no. >> the president has said, correctly in my view, that strong congressional oversight is absolutely essential in this area. it's not possible for the congress to do the kin of vigorous oversight that the president spoke about, if you

can't get straight answers. >> so i responded in what i thought was the most truthful or least untruthful manner by saying no. >> the most truthful or least untruthful manner. what in the world is director of national intelligence james clapper mean by that? carl rove joins us. >> great to see you. >> mr. clapper said in march, made a statement denying to senator leiden that the data is being collected. and yesterday, nbc, he told andrea mitchell that he was trying to give the most truthful or least untruthful. >> two actors in this drama. a little bit of a context. ron lwiden, knows what's going, knows about the classified nature of the program. in the open congressional hearing, he asks clapper a

question that is drawn from the knowledge of this program. and then clapper gives this answer. >> true or false was this answer? >> false. not accurate. >> sometimes we say not accurate to sugar coat. true, false, or something in between? >> it's not accurate. two actors in the drama. clapper. why did clapper not think ahead? anybody preparing him for this hearing would have to say wyden has some concerns, he might acknowledge it. let's figure out an answer, and he, clapper, as you saw, quickly says no. >> but -- his first insympathy nation is not to tell the truth, your honor oath, before a senate committee. >> it's also bad that wyden, read into the program, resident pursuing this out of the public sight by doing the oversight that the intelligence committee

is supposed to do and ask these questions and build a consensus among colleagues, uses the fact that he's another hearing junior oath with clapper. both of these people misbehave. the bigger miss behave yore, the guy who did not come to the hearing and says is i will have an answer. >> i think it's wrong when you are your honor oaunder oath and question. >> every opportunity to figure out the appropriate way to describe the program. >> or you could have done the day after the march 12th testimony. could have made a call and said, look, he ambushed me. he could have done something, but he didn't until yesterday with nbc and yesterday's statement, nbc, is asked when you are going to start stop beating your wife kind of thing? >> three actors, the obama administration in the first

year, developed a reputation for top flight communicators. i don't know what happened. how and why are they letting clapper go on television and say the truth or least untruthful thing i could say. this rings really bad in the ears of americans. so the administration bears some responsibility for not -- not sitting down and saying, okay, here is the best way to explain what you did. >> should he resign? this guy is the top intelligence guy and testified falsely under oath. >> i have a concern about it, but he was asked a question by for which there was not a good answer, and he was using classified information to set up the question. holder, told a flat out and out lie, claiming he never did something that he had done. it's a close call. this is -- this is not as clear

cut in my mind as holder. >> and i'm pulling a wyden and ambushing you. a tape where mr. clapper was interviewed by diane sawyer. 20 men arrested in london in a terror plot and diane sawyer had this exchange with mr. clapper. let's play it. >> london. how serious is it? any implication it is coming here? any of the things they have seen coming here? i was a little surprised you didn't know about london, director clapper. >> no, i'm sorry, i didn't. >> all right. that may have been -- a little ambushing you. but every blackberry and smartphone had it by the time he had that. >> would you expect him to know about this. this was an attack abroad. the later explanation was he was

involved in these sets of meetings these days and back then, he at least went out and said, look, i simply had not been briefed on it and i should have been briefed on it. >> but when everybody in the media and you get these alerts on your cell phone. everybody in the country has cell phones, the nsa probably knows we're getting them now. >> badly staffed that day. you don't want the director of national intelligence in all candor, sitting in a room and watching cnn and fox and the bbc and be lyndon johnson and have four television sets constantly going. you want him focused on his job. people should have walked in and said, mr. director, before you go out, the last three hours, four hours, you need to know the fog things have happened and big story on the wire is london and here is somebody to brief you on. >> he testified falsely underoath. back up two years, two months, woefully uninformed about

something that virtually everybody knew about. >> he is the director of national intelligence. he doesn't necessarily need to know immediately about every cycle terrorist incident around the world to do his job, but before he goes on television, somebody who worked for him should have said mr. director, you need to know about this. >> you wouldn't expect to be informed? >> i don't know what his day was like. i saw what the day was like for the dni during summertime when we were in office and when president bush was in office and it is a very complicated job, and you spend your time not just looking at the in basket. the job, director of national intelligence is to look forward. they are not in charge of the day to day. the director of the cia, guy who is more important, have to have instantaneous knowledge, is he in charge of deploying assets. the supervisor role is the dni. i'm not excusing him going into an interview with diane sawyer and not knowing something that for the last four or five hours

before the interview, everybody in america and the world was talking about, someone had an obligation to say to the director of the dn ifri, his communication person, public affairs person, deputies say you need to know about this. >> i don't know how he missed it, unless he lives in a vacuum. you walk past the tv set. he he won't be in the cab. the radios running, and everybody talking about this. and he is uninformed about it. >> and i'm not defending him. a mistake was made. somebody should have told him. don't assume that everybody in the government knows about everything instantaneously. people fin themselves in an important meeting where somebody may or may not come in and say you need to know this. but certainly before he went on the tube, he was terribly let down by his staff. somebody -- if he stuck in importa not the operational guy, he is the guy looking over the horizon, somebody had an obligation to

tell him, mr. director, before you go on television, you need to know about something that happened. >> he has no staff either. >> well, maybe, but somebody let him down, and i assume somebody had ramifications for it. that was a bad day. somebody ill prepared him for this interview with -- actually this testimony before congress. wyden read into the program. >> when i came out here at night, i've got all this work here, a staff that helps me and do a lot of work, but i do through everything and come out here at least hopefully informed and i'm not running security. >> the director of national intelligence, and the amount of information he has to consume and stay on top of is enormous. he has been ill served on at least two big occasions and one of them may cost him his career at dni. >> any thoughts on mr. snowden. >> a great piece in "washington times" by bill gertz.

al qaeda taken the information that mr. snowden released and using that to change the method they communicate. america is a less safe place. the world is a less safe place because mr. snowden deser. i think he deserves to be tried. >> you know, i had an incredible security background check 30 years ago when i was working in federal court as an intern. >> 29-year-old contractor in hawaii. >> ex-cia. >> ex-cia, ex-military. strikes me this is a profile you want to continually monitor, and he had access to some of the crown jewels. -- i would suspect there is serious re-examination going on

in the nsa, national security agency of security procedures and how this could happen. >> now to the ifrs scandal. darryl issa blasting the top democrat after elinga cummings said that the irs targeted investigation is a done deal. >> based upon everything i have seen, the case is solved if it were me, i would wrap this case up and move this on. >> in a blistering letter, chairman issa writing, "your decision to publicly announce that the investigation should wrap up was irresponsible, but not surprising. however, your push to release entire transcripts from witness interviews while the investigation remains active was reckless and threatened to undermine the integrity of the committee's investigation." two men not fond of each other. >> elijah cummings should not have done what he did. irresponsible this is a very

serious question. use of internal revenue service to punish the political enemies of any president, republican or democrat, should worry every american about the integrity of our system. senator cummings knows it's not a done deal. we're only beginning know the depth and breadth of this. the hierarchy in washington, d.c. directed what happened in cincinnati. and similar letters came from ogden, utah, baltimore, washington, d.c., san diego. some were signed by lois lerner. we need to know how far this went it ill serves the country to have the ranking minority member of the house government oversight committee declare this investigation is over if this

can be undertaken by the irs by a democratic president, it can be junior taken in a republican administration, by liberal and democratic groups. that ought to scare every one of thus, what was interesting, chairman issa absolutely right. the idea that somehow or another, why we have an active congressional investigation going on, we're going to somehow have the congress release the transcripts of the people at the bottom they are talking to, you are a former prosecutor. >> let me tell you something. issa put his foot into this one. he selectively released certain portions. if he doesn't want it out, he should keep it quiet. if you won't provide everything else, people are spiuspicious, either release it or don't. don't play, dangling part of it. >> on the record, cummings making this before there was

even any partial release of the testimony. what they are attempting to do, say we are making progress. this goes to the heart of the matter. we keep hearing from the administration, isolated to a few people in cincinnati and evidence from people on the record, underoath. giving them their names who say it wasn't. broader than that, extended to washington. >> i think if you are going to dangle something out there, like has been done, you better be ready to say where is the rest of it? the vision of lois learner taking the fifth amendment will keep this investigation alive. >> not only that have you seen the course of investigations, starting patient until snaebs and working their way up and what will happen, and we will see more levels of this emerge, hearings when we call to testify and people will start in these interviews, start naming names

and pointing fingers and giving the american people a broader understanding how this came about. this is the first step to restoring congress. >> only about 30 seconds left. all of the scandals or allegations mean to the morale of the nation? >> 58% of the american people think benghazi and the justice department subpoenaing of journalist phone records and 55% of the irs scandal raised doubts about overall honesty and integrity. >> that's before the nsa revelation. >> and 38% approved of the president's handling of the irs situation and 5 8% high-ranking officials in the obama administration were aware. undermining trust and confidence in the administration specifically and government generally. we need to get facts out so

people can begin to believe in the confidence of their government. actions laid out to deal with their responsibility. >> there was a greater effect in other ways too. >> probably right. but other things like the affordable care act and uncertainty about the country's fiscal position, probably a bigger impact. >> tryidifficult with this stuf lingering out. >> thank you. >> president obama in miami. rick santorum talking about that next. government gone wild, again, this time, billions with a "b." isn't irs line dancing this time. what is it? coming up. chris christie may have a backup plan in he wins re-election. coming up. hey kevin...still eating chalk for heartburn? yeah... try new alka seltzer fruit chews.

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joins us. >> how are you, greta? >> i'm fine, thank you. and today the president hitting three fund-raisers. bad timing, or it doesn't matter? he is going to do it sometime, they all do. >> i don't think it's a good time in the midst of scandals. it's the way the president operates. likes to be out of washington, and raise money and play politics. he's very good at it, very accomplished at it. doesn't particularly care to micromanage things in washington. doesn't particularly like to take responsibility for the things that are going on there, and so if he stays out and gets in campaign mode, can fire up troops and keep his base energized, that's really i think the ultimate game plan. >> i guess some of the issue is fun raising, from boston to miami, air force one, a fully

equipped white house, would you not assume some business is going on? >> the president -- we all are, we are all in constant touch. part of the problem with this society. always on, always available and certainly the president is no different than that. when are you out on the campaign trail, what he is doing right now, you are focused on the campaign. when you are on air force one, candidates on the plane with him, visiting with him, talking about the next event. and so you are out there on the stomp, and you will be fairly concerned about what is going on in your day. not paying a whole lot of attention to the minutia in washington. >> do you see more hands on with how the scandals are developing or just keeping distance and let them play out, or should he be doing something? >> the president's reaction, every time a new scandal comes

in, i didn't know anything about it. who me? this is all news to me. he is the -- he is the anti thesis of a great democratic president when it comes to a great democratic president. the buck stops here and no buck stopping near president obama's desk in his opinion. if something is going wrong, it's somebody else's fault and hopped out on the campaign trail to rally his base, and get his people to energize to stocapito hill. >> what different difference does it make? he is in his section term. health care going forward. we anticipate lots of problems, exchanges aren't set up. a lot of people complaining about rates going up. some people like the health care, some aspects. some really hate it. what difference do all of these sorts of scandals make to the president? >> i think you make a very good point, greta.

something will overwhelm all the scandals, the implementation of obama care and maybe what he's doing is raising money, because, you know, they will have to fight back, you will see huge premium increases and people will lose their insurance, and you will see horrific situations with businesses dropping their insurance. a nightmare for the obama administration, states not ready with the exchanges, and it's a problem. maybe what the president is doing is really smart in the sense where he's going out and raising money to battle what he knows will really be the waterloo for him in politics and certainly for the 2014 election, which is astronomical health insurance increases, a drop in the number of insurers and it will disable economy as a result of that. maybe this is his way of preparing for it, and he sees i think maybe realistically, that these scandals are short term and obama care is a long-term

problem for him. >> we talk about rates going up and businesses, but also a lot of people that work at businesses like fast food or something, where hours may get cut to come under the threshold. and a business may notarize above the threshold. a damper around the margins for certain people that could be painful for them. >> there's no question, people will lose their insurance as a result of this. people will lose -- you mentioned, they will lose their jobs, won't be hired as a result of companies refusing to grow. people will get part-time jobs instead of full-time jobs and people who have insurance will see tremendous increases and insurance cut and go back into exchanges. with everything i hear, i talk to a lot of insurance companiyi trying to stay on top as much as i can. the schedule the obama administration has for the

impressi implementation, to process claims and to implement, do benefits, it summer simply cann. it could be a major disaster for the administration. >> you served in the senate. let me ask a quick question. do you think mr. clapper is the best for the job? >> look, i think the president is putting people who are politically attuned to the president who -- and have been very good in apologizing for the president and are not the best people to do the job. no question in my mind about that. >> does that mean clapper should go? do you have any problem with his testimony -- if his testimony was false before, before the senate, and i think it was false, i don't know what you think. should he go? >> i think holder's testimony

was false too. the attorney general. >> should both go? >> look, if you -- if there iss obviously the president should consider whether they want people who perjured themselvesed before congress in their cabinet. i certainly wouldn't want anybody like that in my cabinet. >> is that an easy, soft way to say they should be fwon? >> let me put it this way. i wouldn't have people lie in my administration to the congress and a president who campaigned on being the most honest, ethical, transparent president in the history of the country, would immediately act on such testimony. >> thank you, sir. >> my pleasure. >> coming up, from both sides of the political aisle, the obama administration deliberately

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can lease the 2014 grand cherokee redo 4x4 for $359 a month. the obama administration, maybe the bush administration before it, keeping congress out of loop. >> i am not aware of the program revealed today. no notice, no e-mail, no notices, we were neverly to we were able to fin out information has been revealed this week. i think it's a fiction. it's a fiction that everybody in congress knows. the intel committee gets briefed, but full congress does not. >> a fine line. we need greater accountability and greater transparency. >> i suppose you know the program exists and the extent of the program or you don't know

the program exists. what is the level of the general briefing of the house on this? >> well, i think the intelligence committee in the house and senate were fully briefed. the extent of briefing of other members and you are dealing with classified information, we have to improve the system of conveying that information from intelligence committee members to other members of congress, voting on important issues like fisa and the patriot act, because that portion of the communication is very imperfect. >> and anyway, i hear that it protection us from terrorism, and i see what happens with the tsavraev brothers in boston and we were tip off by the russians and we give citizenship i might add to one them. and drug users use throwaway phones all the time. the broad scale, everybody --

>> i'm not sure. we'relearning a lot more about this program. the questions are you asking are the questions congress will ask itself. maybe hardened terrorists assume their phones are bugged. but people who are sort of copycats. >> dumb terrorists. >> there are reports. we're being told that the system did, in fact, prevent some terrorist bombings, for example, new york city. to the extent have you people in that category, who were less careful. maybe, in fact, this has been revealed will make it less likely we can catch them. look this is a debate. i voted against the reauthorization of the fisa act, not because i don't think we need this kind of security, i thought there was lot of ambiguity with what kind of running room we were giving to the administrative branch. i am less concerned about the

aggregate phone data. my concern is more about what are the rules that apply to kwaerying that data? >> who gets it. you can be a three-month contractor for booz allen that can get this stuff that a member of congress can't get. >> we have had a number of different comments, including that he could wiretap anybody, any time. i'm told that is true. but if that is true, we have a problem. a contractor with security clearance he has could wiretap people and get content, a huge problem with the system. i'm not sure yet to what extent those statements are accurate. those are exactly the kind of questions we need to up if out. >> we need to find out what kind of contractors they hear. do you agree we ought to take a look -- we should have gone hog

wild? >> in the last, you know, ten years since 9/11. have you seen a huge increase in the number of contractor who's have access to highly classified information. now, some extent, you need contractors to help support the system. clearly, the vetting system was not adequate. and we saw the consequences. people will take a hard look about how this information is controlled. >> you are not intel, are you? >> i'm not. >> are you in leadership? >> ranking member of the budget committee and participate in leadership, yes. >> do you have special security clearance? >> the information and level of information you can get if you are intelligence committee, is significantly higher than is what is available to other members of congress.

u.s. a need to know basis. >> clapper's testimony, answer to senator wyden. i think it's false. is it a disqualifier, should the ranking highest member of the dni be testifying? should he stay in the job? >> he acknowledged it was misleading. >> it doesn't make it any better. >> no, it doesn't. >> the question, he has made it clear he thought he was put in an impossible situation because he was testifying in public about something public. there's no doubt -- >> he should have call the next day many. >> no doubt, he should have said i can't answer that question in a public forum. he didn't say that, it left an inskredibly misleading impression. lock, i would certainly want to hear more about the circumstances, but there is no doubt that that was something that resulted in misleading a lot of people. he has responded that he thought

that he would have to expose intelligence information and put people at risk. if he answered differently. but he could have answered differently. >> congressman, thank you, sir. >> thank you. new information on what your government is doing to you and is there a fix? and george h.w. bush's birthday is lighting up twitter. we promise you, you have never seen anything like this. but you are about to. stay right where you are. try align. it's the number one ge recommended probiotic c" that helps maintain digestive balance. ♪ stay in the groove with align. ♪ need help keeping yo digestive balance in sync? try align. it's a probiotic that fortifies your digestive system with healthy bacteria 24/7. because your insides set the tone. stay in the groove with align. man: how did i get here? dumb luck?

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from america's news headquarters, i'm lauren green. more severe weather threatens the nation. tornado touched down in iowa and illinois tonight. spawned by a system that might bring hail, serious wind and stifling heat to the midwest and mid-atlantic in the coming days. out west, holt temperatures and gusty winds, fueling wildfires in colorado. a trio of wildfires devouring

nearly 100 homes near colorado springs and more than 7,000 forced from their homes. the mother of a young girl placed on an adult transplant list say her daughter is out of surgery, doing well. 10-year-old sarah murngahan, was in need of new lungs. anyone under 12 is prohibited from getting adult organs. a court order got sarah on the adult list. now back to on "the record." 32.7 billion, with a "b," how much the government spent on medicare payments last year alone. wasted 19$19.2 billion in impror medicaid payments. those are your tax dollars. we put the spotlight on government waste. will it ever stop?

is this ever going to stop? >> there is a remedy in almost 10% of these payments are actually criminally fraudulent. the name of the game is to deploy the technology that's currently in the marketplace and use it for medicare and medicaid to detect fraud. in the same way credit card companies for years have used predicted modeling to determine if someone is dog thing that purchase in that location. al go rhythms can determine if something is real. instead of getting a medicare payer number, manipulating a code and getting payment oftentimes to an offshore location, we can do much better if we bring medicare and medicaid to the same technology that's out there. >> that was the bill, right? and the department of justice not have the capability of doing that now? because part of their job is to prosecute people. 10% fraud. why aren't they prosecuting the 10% fraud?

it would be a nice deterrent if you could get pinched for it, go to prison. >> good effort under way in terms of doj and the work they are doing. here is the point. why is the money going out the door at the very beginning when it's fraudulent? an outrageous scandal utt paid out. >> another question. why in 2013 are and i having this conversation when it has been going on decades? >> here is the reason. there has been waning revenues and things are slowing down, putting more and more pressure on folks to say look, we've got to do things better, faster, and cheaper, and the only way to be fairly indulgent are over. we have to come in, say, look, you can use technology, not blue sky stuff. well proven. the comparison is overwhelming. worldwide credit card transactions, credit card fraud rate is 0.4%. compared to almost 8%, 9%, 10%

of medicare fraud. and going out the door, criminally, this is not some patient that is getting an extra back rub or something. this is rings of criminals that are getting payment numbers, manipulating codes and hugely benefiting. >> how about a statute for a whistleblower. get something so you can deputize people who know this is going on and have incentive to call in. >> i'll see it and raise it. how about the senior citizens right now who get bills they know exactly where they have been, who they have seen, but these bills are so complicated they can hardly walk through it. this bill speaks to a plan to actually get seniors impanelled and empowered to determine this and call it in. right now, overwhelmed.

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on any new volkswagen. for a store near you go to benjaminmoore.com/bayarea. >> greta: okay, it's time to hash it out. say it isn't so. chris christie thinking about doing it again, tweeting jimmy fallon, nothing can top this. or could we? what is he talking about? take a look. ♪ [ music ] . >> greta: last year belting out bruce springsteen's

"thunder road". the governor is headed back to the show tonight. should they just leave it to the boss? and do you remember what happened 26 years ago today? >> open this gate! >> greta: president ronald reagan giving that historic speech june 12th, 1987. and today, donald rumsfeld tweeting today millions more live in freedom today than just 26 short years ago. and another reason today is a big day. it's president george hw bush's 89th birthday n honor of bush 41 famous for his

brightly colored socks everyone is tweeting sock photos. tweet socks to fill. house minority leader nancy pelosi tweets happy 89th celebrating your birthday in style. and so, i thought i'd join in the fun sheer my contribution. happy birthday, mr. president. what socks was he wearing for his birthday? take a look. yes. those are superman socks. if you want to take part tweet your sock pictures to the twitter account. and now to a political candidate with nine lives time news feed reporting there is a cat running for mayor in mexico. it's true. running for mayor in a new mexicoin town campin promise to rid the town of rats n that town rats means corrupt politicians so what are the chances of winning?

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>> greta: time for last call. it's one of the hits that helped make justin timberlake a star. who can forget this next n'sync video? now, a new boy band bringing that hit back. but group is the baseball grounds crew at louisiana state university.

that is your last call. thank you for being with us tonight make sure you go to gretawire.com. i got a special question there. you want to see them, good night from washington, d.c.. mal. if i know every single phone call you make, i'm able to determine every single person you talk to. i can get a pattern about your life that is very, very intrusive. >> that's back when president bush was in office. then senator joe biden scorching surveillance on telephone calls. but now it's a different story, isn't it? we will have a full report. >> this opportunity to say on behalf of the secretary that he has full confidence. >> i'm just seeing through the process. >> okay. >> state department once again on the defensive over whistle-blower allegations about prostitution and drug use. james rosen, will have a follow-up report tonight.